Sharing, Replies and Closure

Dream Sharing on the Internet - John Herbert

Sharing Phase and Replies

This segment is the one in which each group member takes the dream as if it were his or her own and shares feelings and thoughts about the dream and what it might mean in each members life situation.

Remember to share using the present tense if possible and always from a framework of "If it were my dream."
jh

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Subj: Re:Next Phase - Sharing 95-04-03 20:22:59 EDT
From: Hillary

In my dream, Kevin and I are walking into a place we feel we don't belong. It's a place where people live whose values I question - they are focused on power and on money. But, I know that the experience of this place (access to the power that living with these values buys) could impact me greatly. So, I sneak into this world to check it out, never really committing to live in this place of (implied) power for myself.

In my dream, Kevin is that part of me that gets bored quickly. He doesn't have a lot of patience with process. He's the part that wants to learn a new skill now - without the tedium, boredom and (yes) anxiety of learning. (For in learning a new skill there's the anxiety that comes with practicing it, particularly the first time we show this new part of ourselves to our friends.)

In my dream, there's a quality of Peter Pan to the flight. For me, Peter Pan has to do with the (male) part of me who wants to remain forever a child. It's the part who knows that flying really happens when I can make my head light - separate myself from the cares of what is really happening. He is also the child part of me who doesn't really want any responsibility.

So, when I'm in my Peter Pan self someone else (or some other part of myself) has to hold the anxiety and the boredom of being an adult so that I can be light enough to fly. My dream leads me to question where it is that I put my anxiety and boredom when I'm doing things like meditating (or living). Am I fully owning this experience (of anxiety and boredom), am I watching the experience and seeing what I notice about it or is it something I ignore (like that smelly fish?) And, I question if I really understand this process of owning it enough to be able to teach someone else about it? (Although, in my dream, we often teach best what we most need to learn.)

In my dream, a female part of me then enters. The balance of power changes. Somehow, I lose this "light" part and all I can do now is play with that smelly "responsibility" for the anger (meant to type anxiety but I'll let it stand) and the boredom. We leave; then we come back. On the way back I'm no longer leading - I'm following. And, somehow I've forgotten how to fly and I feel clumsy and scared as I trip the alarm. In my dream, when I trip this alarm I'm alerting the parts of me that live in the house that a part of me that doesn't belong (the follower?, the clumsy one?) is coming in. In my dream, I'm then forced to the park, tired and looking for a place to rest. But, all I can do is worry if I will soil the blanket in the mud. To me, it feels like quite a change from the one who could fly earlier.

Asklepios2, thanks for sharing what was, to me, a very haunting dream. I enjoyed working with it and really got an amazing amount of information about what has been going on with me lately from doing this portion of the process. Thanks.

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Subj: If it were my dream
95-04-03 22:53:55 EDT
From: Peter

Where did you go? (Out!) What did you do (Nothing!) This adventure reminds me of the "nothing things" I used to do as a kid - adventures that were private or shared with the friend but not others. In my dream, I am on an exploring adventure. I am sharing experiences with my friend and it seems ok. I am not hiding, just exploring.

I feel good about going out with Kevin, and I feel excited about the possibility of seeing or meeting the Ann Bancroft lady. I feel engaged and within my own private space as I control my flight. I am slightly annoyed when Kevin wants instruction, because the free flow of energy is no longer possible. I get scared when the alarm goes off, but I just do what has to be done and head for the park. I am slightly annoyed when I can't find a dry spot.

Kick the can was always fun and a challenge! How far can I kick it so I can still get to it for the next kick? I never knew which way it was going to go because the can was usually bashed in and had an irregular response, so controlling it was a challenge. Control was a key issue. In my dreams, when I fly or travel over the ground without touching it, I also like the sense of control, being able to travel effortlessly and where I want to go by willing it. Sometimes "willing it" is not the right word, because it seems so natural, it's more like thinking or feeling it - it just happens.

For me, when I experience this, I am totally involved in the process of getting where I want to go and flying or levitating seems to be the best way to get there; it's efficient. In this dream of mine, I am just sort of fooling around, and being asked to teach someone how to fly changes things. It is very subjective, and having to teach someone means I can't just continue to do it myself if I have other concerns.

There is a shift of energy after the other woman comes in. The objects I kick are more like residue - human excrement (energy already spent), empty gas can (energy spent), inedible fish (no energy available). The next time we go in, why do I trip the alarm when Kevin and the woman do not? What is alarming about my going back in to the house the second time?

In my dreams, rain often is associated with a release of emotions of some sort, and beaches are very special for me - I really feel in touch with nature when on the sand. When we go to the park, the ground is pretty muddy, so it must have rained recently.

Also in my dreams, I often have to look at all people and parts of the dream as parts of me. If this were my dream, I would have to ask myself if there is a part of me (whose characteristics are like Kevin) that has changed and is not as carefree as it used to be. Is there is a part that now wants to learn other skills and be more integrated into my way of traveling? Are there male/female issues involved, in that If the Kevin part joins up with a feminine counterpart that is not a part of me, would it lead to energy loss, wasted assets, and an alarming situation? Would getting different parts together allow me to try to find a place "park" myself?

Thank you for sharing an interesting dream.

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Subj: Re:If it were my dream
95-04-03 23:31:17 EDT
From: Robin

This one's a little bit tough to treat as my dream: my mind keeps offering up sexual associations for it - but I'm not male. However, if I were...

In the dream I'm about 12, and kind of competitive with my buddy Kevin. We go into this house where there is a woman who is rich - literally rich but also offering sexual adventure like Mrs. Robinson (in the movie *she* is the one who seduces the "graduate"). She is there alone, but she never appears; so when we go up to her bedroom we can only play kick the can. But I control the situation by using my head, as I've learned to do. Other people like Kevin sometimes think I'm just up in the air. They feel it's boring to think or imagine, or if they really try it, it makes them anxious - like Kevin they are just willing to go there a little bit. I'm not sure if I know how to teach anybody else to do it.

Then a younger woman appears, a more realistic sexual opportunity. But it seems a little grubby too. Kevin goes into the bedroom with her though, and I think I'll follow, but I get alarmed. What will the family think? So we run away to make it a day at the beach - but it's kind of dirty there, too.

>>>

(Couldn't really get into it much - wrong sex. If it were *really* my dream, there would be different symbols: I would probably be with my cousin (the *pretty* one) - so giggly and dumb and bored with what I liked - reading books, thinking. But she would get the prize (or what everybody thought the prize was) and I would be exposed and embarrassed by the alarm. My feelings would be a muddle of inferiority/superiority!)

Thanks for the dream, Asklepios. P.S. Peter - that's pretty ingenious about the energy.

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Subj: If it were my dream--Charlene
95-04-03 23:57:07 EDT
From: Betty

If this were my dream, I might be searching for the place I belong. I like to be relaxed but I also like things to be nice and it is hard for me to combine the two. There are things I know but cannot share, tho I would like to, like how to fly, or how to feel. It seems to me that others are missing out on the fun by not being willing to learn, but then when they are, I don't know how to teach them. My life is enjoyable to me, but maybe I lack really intimate relationships which leaves me feeling a bit secretive about my pleasures, covetous of them because I can't share them but don't want to give them up. The more people there are in my life, the more I become distanced from this core of pleasure within myself--the woman who kicks shit or whatever, the people who come back so we have to leave the house. Others aren't hostile to me, just disrupt my pleasure. At the end of the dream I am in the midst of lots of people, mostly strangers, and can't even find a place to "be."

Thanks for sharing, Asklepios.

Voluntary Dreamer's Feedback

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Subj: Voluntary Dreamer's Feedback
95-04-05 00:14:28 EDT
From: JHerbert

For those unfamiliar with this process, it is important to note that the next phase consists of feedback from the dreamer. This is always the dreamer's choice. Usually dreamers are able provide some feedback about hits and misses (that's how we all learn) and share how the dream metaphor applies directly to his or her life, but there are rare times when a dreamer would prefer, for various reasons, (a) not to provide feedback, or (b) share it privately via E-Mail. This choice of the dreamer's must be honored. Thanks, John (current moderator)

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Subj: Asklepios2 to Hillary
95-04-05 08:14:10 EDT
From: Asklepios2

Hillary:

Many thanks for your rich and textured response to "Flying Lessons.." It had slipped my attention that Kevin and I were trespassing and acting like hoodlums. But that's what we were doing.

And how true for me that power is tempting but seems to come with too much baggage- in this case a whole family, culture, lifestyle. And Kevin and I struggle with power issues but there is a lot of unacknowledged stuff, so its kind of like sacred ground or trespassing to go in and deal with it.

Yes, its quite true that Kevin and I share without owning a lot of anxiety and boredom. In this sense, to the degree I fly without containing the anxiety boredom, it will manifest in Kevin when we are actually together and in the Kevin part of me when I am with myself. Kevin and I can kick it around, play with it, but not own it. As you mentioned so well, the dream offers an opportunity to handle anxiety boredom without projection / displacement.

I also liked the idea of the alarm being set off by the new (or old) approach. For some reason we can't get "her" into the power complex. Perhaps she is just to vague and undefined at this time. I could cast out nets of possibilities, forcing her into representations of feeling, value, the feminine, the womb potential... but these all seem pre-mature and forced and biased.

I'm glad you let the word "anger" stand in place of anxiety, as it has been the solution the universe seems to have offered me as a way out of that hell. I know others, but anger seems to allow me to connect with self containment. On the other hand, Kevin has in life (in my opinion) overused anger and its his only easily accessible emotion.

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Subj: Asklepios2 to Peter
95-04-05 08:15:36 EDT
From: Asklepios2

Reply to Peter: Many thanks for you personal and thoughtful response. The exploring metaphor rings quite true for me an helps me to enter into the difficulties later encountered as well as finding a place for my concerns about trespassing and being somewhere I "shouldn't" be. We're just exploring.

The control issue is very prevalent and it makes me amazed that two or more humans can reside for long together without consciously dealing with it. I liked your point that kicking the can around is a way of playing with control, and I see the dream image now as useful in application to how Kevin and I modulate our power issues. We are always kicking around ideas, and sometimes it turns from play to something else. Kevin seems more willing than me, in the dream, to give up the control issue for a moment and allow me to instruct him, whereas I become rather ugly and try to draw him across the coals. (boredom and anxiety being his hot coals)

I like the spent energy metaphor - great! It leads me into the unknown area of how that scene's energy gets transformed, dissipated. My ego wants to say that it also proves the point that if Kevin is not willing to go through the shit, then we'll just end up kicking it around again, a kind of repetitive neurotic cycle that plays with the issue in ever decreasing moments of satisfaction and consciousness. Though, I suppose, its still there , though vague and difficult to represent clearly.

The alarming situation - ho ho. There is something about her presence that doesn't seem to allow us to get back in. Could the Bancroft woman's energy be compromised here and set off the alarm - this is not me!, this is but a poor simulacrum! Or, as you mentioned and I will elaborate on, does the feminine alignment with Kevin change the energy, as if I harbor a little psychodynamic fantasy of their only being one "woman" and if he has her, I have nothing? In the end I abandon the entry to the Bancroft house and as you mentioned, try to find some place for us all to park.

Now I'm beginning to think of this part of the dream as a kind of classical denouement, and the climax having been the teaching scene. As you mention, we just go there to park, the real alarming stuff is around the house. Its too intense or unresolved to remember the solution to teaching Kevin to fly, so there is a gap. Its interesting to note that some people feel we go unconscious when we are about to get what we want, as the fantasy is driven by that desire in the first place. In this case, I want Kevin to learn to fly - but then change my mind (perhaps) and set up a condition where he would have to go through hell to learn, thereby retaining the flying as a skill I can hold over him in a power dynamic. I am going to watch for alarming moments in the next few days and see how they unfold. How many of them are structurally similar to this dream?

Ok, Peter, you got me thinking. Many thanks, many flights.

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Subj: Asklepios2 to Robin
95-04-05 08:18:38 EDT
From: Asklepios2

Robin, many thanks for attempting to enter an odd male dominated dream. I'm glad you mentioned the sexual issues, as they are in the background everywhere but not directly addressed. I especially like the idea suggested of the Bancroft woman being a seducer, and so too her house, her complex, may be seen this way. It keeps drawing us back, it allows us to enter and explore, but threatens to expose us as intruders from a lower class. (As did Mrs Robinson). We can enter as innocent boys, but if we bring the girl with us, the alarm goes off. Though I really was the one who set it off. I could subjectify the dream and say it doesn't matter, its all part of me - but there may be some more useful imagery in maintaining an ego connection to what is alarming. Still, its completely unconscious what is alarming, and I take it all on myself in the dream. Its interesting that you wander off into a complex personal area that has to do with being seen, competition, friend dynamics (your cousin). These are all dynamics that this dream seems to stir up, regardless of the readers!

Thanks for your comments. -Asklepios2

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Subj: Asklepios2 to Charlene
95-04-05 08:20:52 EDT
From: Asklepios2

Yes, Betty; belonging, sharing, loneliness - yet a rich private inner connection. This would be a *great* way to view the house, my rich inner connection. I want outsiders to come in and play, but there is something about the house,.. it is jealous, or protective or possessive about intrusions. Somehow Kevin has gotten in, and we can explore and play and kick things around, but he really doesn't get it, doesn't get me, and we never encounter the central figure. Bringing others in is even worse. So nobody gets to really see me (or her/me in my identity with her) though I can hand out in the neighborhood and be bored and anxious. And of course no one can see me because to do so I offer only one horrid path, either boredom or anxiety. Most can't even get that close. Perhaps to the degree I learn to carry my own boredom and anxiety, I can mediate and create new paths to and from myself.

Thanks you for the emotional connections , I feel this is a metaphor I want to keep with me and experiment with. - Asklepios2

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Subj: Moderator's comments
95-04-05 16:05:56 EDT
From: JHerbert

As a moderator observing the group postings, I think this group reflects a remarkable degree of sharing and of very meaningful feedback from the dreamer.

I hesitate to make any comments about technical aspects of the postings, but particularly for those new to the process. I think I should share one item.

Peter's question asking "What makes you think the spot is 'boredom'?", for example. probably should not have been phrased in a "what do you think" structure. The problem (evident in the responses) was that the question tended to lead the dreamer toward making an interpretive response, and it was difficult for the dreamer to answer without bringing in personal associations.

It is sometimes difficult not to give too much information during the answer phase. The problem with the dreamer's giving too much personal information (via associations) is that it may limit a participant's response in that he or she may not be able to take the dream freely as his or her own and share from that point of view - the dreamer's associations may modify the sharing. The dreamer had a hint of this and commented (in answering Robin) "well, I'm getting ahead of the clarification process."

I think this has been an remarkable dream group. The participants have contributed varied and interesting perspectives, and the dreamer has provided the group with insightful comments that have allowed everyone to see how the dream metaphor may have commented on the dreamer's true life situation. I, for one, would like to thank the dreamer and group members for sharing and working with this very interesting dream and providing such a rich exchange of experience.

John Herbert (cm)

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Subj: To Asklepios2
95-04-05 23:15:38 EDT
From: JHerbert

To Asklepios2 Thank you for sharing feedback with me about my posting. It's always an extra plus to learn that others in the group and I may have helped provide a different perspective that proved helpful. Thanks for sharing an interesting dream and for all the great feedback. John

This is the end of the AOL Dream Group 16 Log.

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Modifications for WWW format with permission of all members and participants of DreamGroup 16 and John Herbert, jherbert@alum.mit.edu

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