Date: Sun, 5 Nov 1995 16:26:32 -0800 From: mhaley@sirius.com (Mike Haley) Subject: Healer, heal thyself...
Anna V: I find it odd and intriguing that there are so many on the Sethlist that share the experience of wandering alone, determined, with book in hand only to discover, after years, SNI or sethworks The List. I also wondered, during my time out there, how others reacted to Jane's illness and death that you mention in your "doorknob" post...
> For a long time, though captivated, i treated the whole subject as
> a philosophy. This was due mainly to the fact,
> if your remember, that Jane was very ill during the writing of
> "dreams, evolution etc". I had a very strong feeling of
> "healer heal thyself". BTW this is a thread that has come up
> several times on sethworks since May, when i joined up.
Is there a chance that someone on the list captured that thread and might have it available for transfer? I have not resolved that healer/healed conflict for myself: it continues to nag and I would enjoy resolution.
My best,
Mike
From: raphael@cts.com Date: 11/5/95 7:37pm Subject: [SETHWORKS:10423] Re: Healer, heal thyself...
Mike,
Thanks for asking about that thread--I'd be quite interested in it myself.
You also wrote:
>Anna V: I find it odd and intriguing that there are so many on the Sethlist
>that share the experience of wandering alone, determined, with book in hand
>only to discover, after years, SNI or sethworks The List.
My experience with finding Seth was a bit different--it came about after a
series of experiences in
my life, each one a message telling me that there was much, much more to
reality--when I did find
Seth and began reading
(don't remember which book--maybe nature of the psyche) I stayed up for as
long as it took to
read it from start to finish, crying in recognition of the many truths I
found there. It's real hard to
read through tears, but I had lots of tissue! I then began finding person
after person entering my
reality who had similar beliefs. There were still many people who did not,
who thought I was
quite wierd, (and who still do
I can certainly empathize with the feelings of wandering alone from my
pre-seth days though!
laura
>Is there a chance that someone on the list captured that thread and might
On June 7, continuing a discussion with Stephen Kraft ( another
Therefore, as I choose to believe in the Jane/Seth world view,
To me Jane, as Jane not Seth, did exactly that. She was drawn to the
When we get the CD ROM,( Stan are your reading this?)
This is my take on Jane.
I do not want to invalidate Stephen's insight using his own
Anna V
Here is a watchguard dream I had August 30, 1984 - days before Jane died. At the time of this
dream I was totally unaware she was dying, I knew she had an arthritic condition, but didn't know
she was in a life-threatening situation.
Dream:
"I dreamed I was talking with Seth (he was speaking from the clouds), and he was explaining how
Jane Roberts was to only take/give dictation. Hers was to be a singular work because she was
basically a loner and felt weighted down by questions and demands her books were creating. (I
saw her standing in a sea of people. She was stooped and had a troubled, painful look on her
face; people's demands were making her ill. She looked weighted down.) Therefore, we were to
teach the masses and take that responsibility. Also he said the newsletter would be good and we
should work on it and send it out with this explanation:
We don't propose to know all the answers, and we are only interpreting Seth's information, but
we will try our best. We will periodically send our newsletter to Seth for review and/or comment
but basically for guidance."
************
Here again, in this situation, we co-created Jane, Seth, the material and her illness and her death.
If you will remember Jane had an awsome responsibility with her mother's illness and felt rather
trapped in the situation. Many years later, even though the Seth happening prolonged her illness,
she was once again placed in a similar situation in which her productions and readers were placing
demands on her. We see this kind of situation again and again in the pain program. People will
recreate their childhood experiences! For those of you who are into behavioral medicine, you
will understand this - think in terms of dysfunctional families, codependant relationships, etc.
Knowing and putting information into action are many times two different things. I don't know
how many of you have ever tried to heal yourself from anything. Take a cut, for example - can
you heal it in a day? Healing is a very self-involved, mentally focused, time consuming activity -
not as much fun or as interesting as discussing philosophy. On top of having a genetic situation to
heal - cellular memory - she had already deveoped those neuronal pathways of pain which
reminded her every day that her joints were stiff and they hurt, which reinforced the mind of her
genetic problem, etc. in addition to the sinful self. Her adult self primarily lived in the 60s, 70s
and early
80s, behavioral medicine (ie biofeedback) certainly wasn't as advanced or readily available as it is
now, nor were all the self-help books on the market. She had the Seth material, but for all
practical purposes the information was coming from her - she had many, many mind-traps to get
past in order to effect a healing. She was, after all, human. Also during this time frame there was
a lady who wrote books about natural healing, Adele
Davis, and even though her books were all the rage and very popular, she died of cancer. Jane
didn't have much in the way of reflection to bounce her trials and errors off of.
An interesting exercise is to imagine what reality would be like if Jane was still living.
Cheers,
Billie
Anna wrote about Jane:
"She was fed up with being part of a guru, and hampered by the nitpicking details of
communicating thoughts through publishing."
Agree! Folks tend to ignore the fact that Jane Roberts is one of the very few channelers who
wrote under her own name; who commented on her process, including her doubts and concerns.
She was trying to be her own person, while at the same time utilizing a model (deep trance) which
meant placing her persona/ego aside. Even tho' Seth may have engaged in dialogue with Rob and
class members, in this particular mode of communication there was no dialogue with Jane.
Linda
Anna V:
I first encountered Seth while meditating on a tomb in a cemetery (Mary
Baker Eddy's, it turned out) -- as I mentioned in previous post, a crystal clear image of Seth
Speaks came into my mind.
I rapidly dug into the material. One night, I fell asleep & found myself
OOB in Elmira, interrupting a session. I was greatly embarrassed & sent an apologetic card the
next day, with a drawing of the tomb on it (a beautiful
Greek thing -- concrete circle supported by fluted columns, evergreens growing inside,
surrounded by circular stone steps -- leading down to pond on one side.)
The response I got was the first conscious indication that Jane was not well
(this was about 2 years before her death) -- a card from R. indicated that, due to J.'s illness, they
were unable to respond to individual letters.
Yet, the mere fact of "tuning in" in a cemetery in the first place was a clue.
I found the whole "sinful self" explanation of her illness in the material itself quite plausible -- it's
something I can relate to.
Bill I.
>Anna wrote about Jane:
and Linda added:
>Agree! Folks tend to ignore the fact that Jane Roberts is one of the very few
Edgar Cayce also went into deep trances. His source advised him to cool it
-- he was overdoing it & trying to respond to too many requests for aid. He didn't -- and the
strain killed him.
[This leads to a sub-thread on Cayce]
Some thoughts on why Jane couldn't heal herself:
I just got my hands on the last published Seth book "The Magical Approach".
And ever since I was wondering, why it was puplished 11 years after Jane died, and 15 years
after
those sessions were held.
Robert Butts gives some explanation in his foreword, but only physical time explanations, no
explanation why this reality was created that way.
So I thought, maybe it was inteded by Seth all the way.
All through the book I got the feeling that Seth already knew that Jane wouldn't be able to help
herself. I almost got the impression that Seth tried desperatly to help her, knowing that it most
likely was in vain. Did anyone else have that feeling while reading "The Magical Approach"?
Most of Jane's physical problems derived from her lingering doubt, about what all those sessions
represent.
In that respect Seth said (in session 2): "You did not think you were dealing with ficiton. On the
other hand, you were not willing to call it fact either."
That sentence IMHO is the key to understanding why Jane was not able to help herself in the
long run.
Unless we can accept every bit of information Seth gave us, as pure fact, we will find doubts and
conflicts inside of us. Conflicts that can lead to physical trouble in one way or another.
Are we ready to accept everything as pure fact? No nagging doubts anywhere? Unfortunately
not, because we are already questioning Seth's books, because not even Jane could help herself!
This conflict, between todays sciences, traditional upbringing and Seth's facts, is a big one, not
easily resolved.
Jane herself failed in that respect. But did anyone had the thought that she might have
volunteered to set an example on how *not* to do it?
Accepting those ideas as facts is far more difficult for us than many of us realize.
Maybe the time was not right during Jane's life, for someone to fully resolve that conflict. Jane's
generation (she was born in 1929) is much stronger rooted in traditions and the good of all
sciences than today's kids.
Maybe Seth realized that only very few people of Jane's generation would have been able to
benefit from this book (after learning that not even Jane could do it fully) whereas following
generations would already benefit much more. And maybe that's why "The Magical Approach"
was intended to be released many years later all the way.
Andy
You know, reading this thread about Jane not having healed herself, I can't help but to think:
"Why are we trying to put her onto a pedestal? She was a person, like you and me!"
"What has her illness got to do with the validity of the Seth material? She created her own
reality! Her arthritis was her own creation!"
I think some of us are taking the fact that she did not cure herself too much to heart. She was
as
infallible as the rest of us when it comes to dealing with critical beliefs. Seth gave Jane and Rob
hundreds of private sessions about their lives and her arthritis; he did all he could under the
circumstances. The fact that Jane ultimately decided to leave physical reality when she did was
her own personal decision, one that should not detract from the Seth material in any way.
In actual fact, I'd go even further and say that the fact she did die is an important lesson for all
of
us, which is this: we must decide for ourselves whether the Seth material is valid or not, and NOT
lament the fact that Jane did not wave her magic wand and banish her arthritis so that us mere
mortals could have the proof that we needed that Seth was real.
I think those who have lingering doubts over the Seth material because of this issue ought to
consider why it is they require such rigid proof, when the proof is ALL AROUND YOU in your
daily lives, and your own personal experiences.
It was never up to Jane to be a prophet or ascended master.
Jane was a remarkable woman, and explored frontiers that few of us have been daring enough to
consider, but above all she was HUMAN. She left behind a legacy that will inspire generations of
people to come; not a doctrine, a bible, or a book of rules: but a tantalising glimpse of inner
realities that should inspire us all.
Seth himself said that his books were intended to speak to those portions of our being that we've
forgotten, and not to just hand us the answers on a silver platter. Jane was a mirror of us all:
forever questioning, never just accepting blindly what Seth had to say regardless of the fact that
SHE was the one channelling him. I think that is admirable.
And let us not forget Robert Butts: he was the one who sat in front of Jane taking notes, he was
the one more willing to accept that which Jane herself was hestitant to accept lest she seem less
than impartial. Together they made one hell of a team. And Rob's work goes on...
Me, I believe in Seth and what he had to say because his words speak to my heart, and have
opened my eyes to a world that is far more beautiful and amazing that I had ever thought
possible.
Then there are those who believe we each leave this physical world when we have finished our
work. No matter if it is a stillborn baby, a centenarian, or someone who has given us as much
recognizable help as Jane
Roberts, Edgar Casey or Yitzhak Rabin, that person leaves when his/her mission is
accomplished.
It may take the rest of us any number of years to work out the details of what we learned from
their contribution. But they left when they were ready. YCYOR. And that is wonderful.
Beti Shalom
Phillip wrote:
The wife of a friend of mine, then a minister in Elmira, had an acute form of cancer. I mailed NPR
to them, as well as sending energy. He was obviously upset about it -- he told me how he had
counseled Rob (who apparently ran into severe financial problems after Jane's death -- very high
hospital bills) and was bothered that I sent him the book. The upshot of both situations:
a) My friend's wife's cancer went into complete remission. b) Rob, to my understanding, was
helped out of the $ problems by support from Seth readers, once a number of them heard about
his situation.
(Despite the success of the books, Jane & Rob never got rich from their publication -- although it
seems like there's a lot of us, the books never sold like mainstream bestsellers.) c) My friend, the
minister, never read the copy of NPR I sent. In fact, he ended up becoming a lawyer.
Bill I.
Beti wrote:
Yes, Jane left when she was intending to; simple as that. As for her condition/disease, we are
overlooking the fact that she created a disease that was brittle and unyielding. If our dis/eases
reflect what we are creating or resisting in our lives, then what was Jane's a reflection of?
I once read a post (years ago) reflecting on Jane's Catholic upbringing and her resistence to it.
I
found this quite valid as an interpretation. Nevertheless, it is Jane's to understand; not ours.
What we have is the wonderful material channeled by her to help us understand what we are
reflecting in our own lifes and bodies!
The method of "exit" one takes can be beautifully reflective of their life lessons, or useful in
perpetuating their work. Just look at the dramatic exit Rabin chose and the way it will magnify
his work and message to the world! What a grand way to guarantee the world will not overlook
what you were accomplishing.
Joann
What did Jane die of anyway? Did she leave a will with any "last words" to her readers? Click here to see a subsequent thread which answers these questions. This is probably not the end of the discussion; so this exhibit could see some further additions in the future. Want to throw in your own two cents worth? Join the Sethworks mailing list today!
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From: anonymoose.ch
Date: 11/6/95 8:48am
Subject: [SETHWORKS:10451] healer heal .../replay
>have it available for transfer? I have not resolved that healer/healed
>conflict for myself: it continues to nag and I would enjoy resolution.
&&&&&&&&&&&&&begin copying
i have reconciled things.
Moose missing form the field, hopefully to rejoin us soon)
> I was very aware of my surroundings and my perceptive
i discovered concurrently with discovering Seth, since the first
book i read was " dreams evolution..", had restrained me from
wholeheartedly adopting Seth's world view. Stephens description
of the disassociatiion of his physical personality in his youth
due to intense spiritual experiences
> ability was quite clear but I couldn't bring thoughts to the surface
> to express them to someone else. For the last couple days of this
> downturn I couldn't even speak. Words would form but wouldn't leave
> my mouth.
>I couldn't see where Jane was finding the space to do this. She continually remained
embodies my worst fears . It is the
reason i have never experimented with drugs, I have never even
been drunk, although I enjoy wine. "I" need to be in control.
I choose to believe that the main part of Jane was in complete control
of the situation. She was creating the reality of her dissolving
physical body for her own very valid reasons.
There is an ancient symbol in the butterfly transforming itself
in the cocoon (?) from a caterpilar. The word Psyche comes
from the ancient greek word for butterfly. Some caterpillars just harden
their skin into immobility, and finally the skin breaks and the
butterfly comes out.
adventures of the other dimensions and left a fraction of her
consciousness to deal with the physical world and have a smooth
transition, mainly for Rob I think because she loved him, and wanted
him to get used to her absence gradually. She had a ready vehicle in
her gene pool with her mother's illnes, and the
sinnful self ready programmed.
I will find you the place where Seth says
that had she not burst out into the brilliant (my comment) work
they were doing together, she would have died within a few years.
The sinnful self was going to get at her anyway.
The spiritual sirens were calling her for further evolution.
She chose to give us a glimpse of this and help in our development
by allowing space in her ego for Seth, and in the process kept
with Seth's advice the sinnful self at bay for 20 years,
and not 25 as Seth had said in the beginning of their association.
experience. Maybe it is another facet of the same event.
> dedicated towards a "forward" growth but was really, for a time,
> needing a wide area to plunge into the depths of an independent and
> personal rebirth. Alone... Without Robert, or Seth, or publishers or
> classes and press conferences, she needed to go on a comprehensive
> Australian version of a walk-about. But she didn't and it became
> apparent that her past had caught up with her through her body.
&&&&&&&&&&&& end of recopying
preprogrammed physiology. She was fed up with being part of
a guru, and hampered by the nitpicking details of communicating
thoughts through publishing. Maybe in the computer age
she would have chosen to live longer.From: BPetty6540@aol.com
Date: 11/6/95 10:28am
Subject: [SETHWORKS:10456] Re: Healer.....
What prompted this dream was a conversation I had with another woman in which we discussed
starting a Seth Material newsletter, unaware any existed, because we felt there were other people
like us who wanted to connect and discuss the material However, I was very insecure about the
thought of starting a newsletter because I didn't think I had what it took to direct discussions
about this matierial.
From: CaseyFlyer@aol.com
Date: 11/6/95 8:41pm
Subject: [SETHWORKS:10466] Re: healer heal .../replay
From: billi@shore.net"
Date: 11/6/95 10:25pm
Subject: [SETHWORKS:10477] Re: healer heal .../replay
> I contend that she did do a conscious walk out, by using her
> preprogrammed physiology. She was fed up with being part of
> a guru, and hampered by the nitpicking details of communicating
> thoughts through publishing. Maybe in the computer age
> she would have chosen to live longer.
>From: billi@shore.net
Date: 11/6/95 10:43pm
Subject: [SETHWORKS:10479] Re: healer heal .../replay
>
>"She was fed up with being part of a guru, and hampered by the nitpicking
>details of communicating thoughts through publishing."
>channelers who wrote under her own name; who commented on her process,
>including her doubts and concerns. She was trying to be her own person, while
>at the same time utilizing a model (deep trance) which meant placing her
>persona/ego aside. Even tho' Seth may have engaged in dialogue with Rob and
>class members, in this particular mode of communication there was no dialogue
>with Jane.
>
From: ac_bauer@ping.at
Date: 11/7/95 4:23am
Subject: [SETHWORKS:10498] Re: Healer, heal thyself...
Did anyone had some ideas on that respect?
From: philip@labtam.oz.au
Date: 11/7/95 4:56am
Subject: [SETHWORKS:10499] Re: Healer, heal thyself...
What more could we ask of Jane?
Nothing!
=========== Philip Stephens, Systems Programmer, Labtam Australia ============
====== Owned by Motor (Mo for short), the power-purrer from Down Under =======
== DS (B+S+O+W)t Y 2.5 X L W C+++ I T++ A+ E H++ S+ V+ F Q++ P B PA+ PL+++ ==
"Many views yield the truth. Therefore, be not alone." -- Viggies' Prime Song
From: clardybe@sutm.2sprint.net
Date: 11/7/95 6:59am
Subject: [SETHWORKS:10501] healer, heal thyself
From: billi@shore.net
Date: 11/7/95 8:33am
Subject: [SETHWORKS:10507] Re: Healer, heal thyself...
> You know, reading this thread about Jane not having healed herself, I can't
>help but to think:.........
>
I basically agree with you. Jane's death saddened me, because it meant no more new Seth books
(leaving aside posthumous ones), but in no way lessened the impact of the material itself on me.
It
did impact others, differently, though:
From: vjim@usa.pipeline.com
Date: 11/7/95 10:57am
Subject: [SETHWORKS:10513] healer, heal thyself
>Then there are those who believe we each leave this physical world when
>we have finished our work. No matter if it is a stillborn baby, a
>centenarian, or someone who has given us as much recognizable help as Jane
>Roberts, Edgar Casey or Yitzhak Rabin, that person leaves when his/her
>mission is accomplished. It may take the rest of us any number of years to
>work out the details of what we learned from their contribution. But they
>left when they were ready. YCYOR. And that is wonderful.
>
>Beti Shalom
>
>
Beti,
May I add my amen to that! I've been trying to resist responding until I read all the posts
relating to this topic, but can't wait any longer.
Jimbo9@aol.com